HOST: Right. Well, all right—you want to get to BlackRock?
CO-HOST: Very much.
HOST: So let’s do it. All right. BlackRock shares are rallying after crushing earnings forecasts, seeing a surge into exchange-traded funds. And I’ve got to tell you, David, this is one of those companies that is a juggernaut. It’s just a juggernaut in fees. And I’m really thrilled that we have Larry Fink to break down the numbers—the chairman and CEO. Larry, look, it’s just congratulations. It is just a machine. And I want to know how—when a lot of other companies are faltering or making mistakes in private credit, or other companies are guiding down in your area—how you just keep putting up unbelievable numbers.
LARRY FINK: It’s good to be here.
HOST: That’s a tough question to answer, isn’t it?
CO-HOST: Wow.
HOST: He deserves it. Do you know how many people I—what? Charlie Scharf—I crushed him too.
CO-HOST: Handle that hardball.
HOST: Yeah, it’s a good fastball, wasn’t it? When you miss the numbers, it’s different.
Okay. All right. He missed the numbers—it would be. Hey. Hey, chief, how you doing?
LARRY FINK: Hey, let me answer that question. You know, over the last 30-plus years, we have been just meticulously building a platform, trying to stay in front of our clients. If you just break it down—in the last quarter and the last 12 months—we raised $744 billion over the last 12 months. Much of it has to do with the global position we have, the role we have in global retirement, our role in investment technology across the spectrum of passive and active, and now across the spectrum of exchange-traded products to private markets.
No other organization has our platform, and it’s resonating. It’s resonating with wealth—over $1 trillion. It’s resonating across countries as more and more countries are recognizing the U.S. juggernaut. A main part of the U.S. juggernaut is our role in the capital markets. Every political leader I talk to asks, “How can we build our own domestic capital markets?” Europe is finally waking up to the need of having a capital markets union.
So we’re winning because we’re having these conversations. Our role in almost every country is one of the leading retirement managers. And on top of that, I believe we are just at the beginning of growing the global capital markets. I do believe you’re going to see the breadth and depth of the global capital markets growing, and BlackRock will be a part of that. So we’re winning share—and I do believe the share that we’re winning is not a one-quarter phenomenon, but the result of years and years of building this platform.
HOST: I will listen to every bank CEO over the course of today and tomorrow, and the one thing that you never hear—because somehow it’s considered to be dangerous—is long-term optimism. It’s dangerous because if something bad happens, we’ll be playing that clip. Who cares? You are a long-term optimist, and it shines through in everything you do. I think the American public is optimistic, but they’ve somehow been jaded. And when I read you—when I read this unbelievable note—it’s like, yes, it can happen. People can be wealthier than their parents. They should stop being so pessimistic.
LARRY FINK: The whole concept of that letter was to grow with your country. I do believe that if you look at the economic array of results, countries that have more breadth in their retirement systems—and having more of their citizens grow with their country—are bigger winners. If you look at the United States, 40% of Americans do not invest in the financial markets, but the 60% who do have grown dramatically.
The only way this makes sense is a long-term optimistic view. And in almost every period of time in our lifetime, if you bought the dips, you would have benefited. Think about it. My letter talks about if you invested on January 1, 2000—then a year later we had a 40% drawdown, we had the dot-com bust, the great financial crisis, COVID, and many other things—but you made over eight times your money. You did so much better than a wage earner. That has to be addressed.
That’s why I believe we need to be much more forceful in thinking about retirement and retirement systems—and BlackRock is at the forefront of that.
HOST: Speaking of retirement, should private credit be in 401(k)s—and if so, why?
LARRY FINK: Let me broaden it. I believe the more expansive the opportunity set, the more opportunity to generate returns. What the Department of Labor is initiating is the opportunity to invest across all markets. You focused on one segment—private credit.
HOST: Because there’s been a lot of focus on it, especially given the illiquidity of the asset pool and whether it’s appropriate for 401(k)s. But in some ways, I would think it is, because they’re long-term.
LARRY FINK: Exactly. Your liability is long—your retirement. No one’s suggesting a huge allocation. You have to be prudent in how you allocate capital. Part of the Department of Labor’s review was around benchmarks and analytics—and that’s what BlackRock is trying to do with Aladdin and eFront. We believe we’ll be at the forefront of helping institutions understand the associated risks.
We’re believers in choice and opportunity—whether that’s crypto, private equity, infrastructure, or private credit. In private credit specifically, 85% of our client capital is institutional, 15% retail. We do identify liquidity constraints—there’s a 5% redemption limit in any one period—but in the first quarter, when we announced that, we actually had more subscriptions than redemptions.
With a 10.4% return, what you’re seeing is that some people are just better at this than others. People think everybody’s bad—but that’s not true.
BlackRock benefited from the dislocations in 2009, and I think we will benefit from dislocations again. I believe in capitalism. There are success stories and failures, and through failures you build resiliency. I’m not terribly concerned. Where else can you buy a diversified portfolio earning 10%? We’re protecting the 95%—that’s our fiduciary duty.
And back to 401(k)s—you hit it on the nose. It’s a long liability, and therefore we believe other markets should be included.
HOST: Let me take you to the present moment. You travel the globe as much as any executive, especially the Middle East. Given negative GDP in some countries and rising domestic needs, should we expect less capital available for private credit, private equity, hedge funds?
LARRY FINK: I can speak to our experience. In infrastructure specifically, clients in the GCC have been large participants in financings and equity raises. We’re working on one or two very large projects in the region right now, and we’re helping countries build retirement systems as we speak.
This week alone, I’m meeting three finance ministers from the region. The resiliency and planning are real—they plan for disruptions. If this lasts a year, that’s different. But today, Saudi Arabia still has significant export capacity, and the disruption isn’t as severe as headlines suggest.
In Qatar, LNG infrastructure will need rebuilding—potentially a $20 billion project—and they need capital. We’re there. Returns could be 10–11% or higher. We’ve done gas pipelines in Saudi Arabia with even higher returns.
HOST: You seem optimistic about the region’s ability to normalize.
LARRY FINK: It depends on the outcome. If tensions subside after the war, it’s a huge opportunity—the region will blossom. Questions remain: Will Iranian oil flow freely? Could oil fall below $50? Or could this extend and push prices above $150? None of us know.
HOST: I have to ask about the Trump accounts.
LARRY FINK: I love it. I’m telling every country they should do this. Capitalism should begin at birth. If young people grow with the markets, they grow more bullish on their country. What better way to build long-term optimism?
HOST: Were you surprised it was mostly Michael Dell?
LARRY FINK: We’re matching at BlackRock. I actually think it should be bigger. If someone my age—or my kids’ age—had started with $1,000, think about what that would mean today. Over the last 25 years, markets grew eightfold. It would change lives.
This is about refocusing on long-term optimism, saving to investing, and growing with your country.
HOST: You’re also tasked with identifying risk. Your earlier letters focused more on climate.
LARRY FINK: In my last letter, I talked about solar. Countries want self-reliance—on defense, food, and energy. This war underscores the risks of relying on imported power. Solar is going to blossom, but we need to build panels and batteries domestically. Every country should.
Gas is incredible—but not everyone has it. Solar alongside gas is the future.
If you listen to Elon Musk talk about solar, theoretically we could power the entire country from Nevada. Or consider Alaska—cold, water, power—it could be a data center hub if infrastructure is built.
HOST: Sounds like a plan.
LARRY FINK: It is.
HOST: Larry, thank you—thank you for your optimism and for the quarter. By the way, the stock’s up over 4% now. It was only up 2% when you came on.
CO-HOST: That’s because of him.
HOST: Exactly. It’s all him.
