Jim Cramer:
We’ve got a real treat — someone who understands and spans everything happening across markets. That’s why we always like speaking with Larry Fink at BlackRock. Their shares are ticking up — unlike the banks — because, of course, it’s not a bank. Larry, good to see you.
Larry Fink:
Happy New Year, guys.
Cramer:
Larry, how did you do it? You talked about a “step function” in the business since we last spoke. How did you pull that off?
Fink:
I’m not sure it’s a step function. Over the last five years we’ve raised $2.5 trillion, so the trajectory has been consistent. But we did have our best year ever: $700 billion in net flows, including $342 billion in the fourth quarter alone.
Across industries and economies, we’re seeing more K‑shaped dynamics — scale operators gaining a larger share of wallet. In our case, growth in Latin America, Asia, and the Middle East was extensive.
No other firm combines public markets, private markets, and investment technology the way we do. That lets us deliver full‑portfolio solutions and complete relationships. And when people speculate about private markets entering 401(k)s — well, we’re already the largest player there. It’s not just about inserting private assets; it’s about designing portfolios that meet beneficiaries’ long‑term needs. We’ve built the firm to deliver both public and private market capabilities together.
Layer on investment technology — ACV growth was 16% this quarter — and it becomes clear: if you’re going to bring private markets into retirement plans, you need the tech to justify and manage it. Clients are coming to BlackRock to set that up as platforms like eFront are further integrated into Aladdin.
Cramer:
On the call you used the phrase “differentiated momentum.” Is that what you’re describing?
Fink:
I don’t think I used that term, but I like it. We are entering 2026 with momentum.
Cramer:
There was a negative thesis that asset management was becoming commoditized. This quarter showed there’s BlackRock — and then there’s everyone else.
Fink:
Every merger brings questions about integration and execution. We saw that in 2009 when we acquired BGI — people said you couldn’t combine public markets, passive, and active. They were wrong. iShares went from $300 billion to $5.5 trillion.
Now we’re merging public and private markets, and once again there’s uncertainty. But our fourth‑quarter results show that integration across all three firms is going as planned — even ahead of plan.
Cramer:
Is 2026 going to be the year of a steeper yield curve?
Fink:
I think so. There’s good justification for lowering rates if you believe in the productivity power of AI and the deflationary impact of China’s $1 trillion trade surplus. AI is deflationary — maybe not fully in 2026, but by 2027 you could see real effects. All of that points toward a steeper curve. That’s why we think income will be a major theme over the next few years.
Cramer:
You’ve often said we lack a new generation of savers. Do you still feel that way? The “Trump accounts” could help.
Fink:
Over the last decade we’ve done more than anyone to democratize investing. We lowered fees by over $600 million. We’re the scale operator with rising margins while lowering costs — by design.
We believe more Americans, and people globally, need to invest alongside the growth of their countries. We tell people in India: invest with the growth of India. Capital markets are expanding everywhere — pillar two, pillar three, retirement reform — and that’s all driving our business. As global capital markets grow, BlackRock grows with them.
Keeping money in a bank account is safe, but over 20–30 years, it’s wrong. If you invested on January 1, 2000 — even with the 40% drawdown that followed — you still earned an 8% compounded return over 25 years. That’s why I don’t get caught up in the noise. I believe in American exceptionalism and in U.S. growth above trend over the next few years. More Americans should be investing in that growth.
David/Panel:
Are you concerned about recent moves from the White House that appear interventionist — limiting defense companies from returning capital, restricting institutions from buying private homes, and other controls?
Fink:
Let’s see what actually happens. I’m focused on outcomes, not the noise. And I actually believe investing today is safer than it was a year ago.
David/Panel:
Why?
Fink:
We have a ceasefire in Gaza. We may see movement toward a settlement in Ukraine, and BlackRock is involved in the reconstruction fund. There’s a lot of noise, and it will affect certain trades and industries, but overall I think the bull story remains intact.
We’re too focused on monetary policy and not focused enough on fiscal discipline. The national debt is over $38 trillion and rising. One day it will matter — and it will show up in confidence in U.S. markets. If foreign buyers hesitate, we could see low inflation but elevated interest rates because deficits are high and financing becomes harder.
We’re not there yet, but that’s the risk. For now, I believe we’re beginning a new growth agenda. We may grow close to 5% in the fourth quarter.
I’ve always felt we’re too preoccupied with monetary policy and not focused enough on fiscal discipline. We simply haven’t had fiscal discipline. The national debt is now around $38 trillion, and it grew last year — it’s going to grow again this year. We keep talking about how one day it’s going to matter, but no one knows when that day comes.
That moment will arrive if confidence in the U.S. capital markets starts to waver. We have the finest capital markets in the world — the U.S. Treasury market is the global benchmark. But if there’s any hesitation about the quality of our markets, you’ll see it in foreign ownership of Treasuries. That’s when you could get low inflation but elevated interest rates, because deficits are so high and financing becomes harder. We haven’t seen that yet, which is why we can still talk about it hypothetically. But if interest rates rise above what the economy’s fundamentals justify, that’s the signal.
Despite this risk, I believe we’re actually starting a new growth agenda. The U.S. may grow as much as 5% in the fourth quarter. And if we can grow at 3% for the next 10–15 years — even with today’s large debt — the debt burden effectively shrinks. If we grow below trend, the opposite happens. Bessent has talked about that — the “three, three, three” idea.
David/Panel:
Do you think there’s a trade that diversifies away from U.S. assets right now?
Fink:
We saw some of that in early 2025. Most international investors are heavily overweight U.S. assets — for good reason — but last year we saw a 3% to 5% reduction in that overweight. That’s one reason the dollar depreciated about 10%. But overall, more investors are looking at opportunities in the U.S. than at any time in my career.
That said, there are other economies where it’s a great time to invest. For example, we invested in a natural gas pipeline in Saudi Arabia — the deal was five, six, seven times oversubscribed. As geopolitical tensions ease, investors are under‑allocated to that region. Same with Southeast Asia — as it grows and diversifies, it creates reasons to diversify portfolios.
Cramer:
What about the infrastructure opportunity? You’ve partnered with the city on a large initiative, and I think you’ve raised about $12.5 billion toward a $30 billion goal. Are you seeing any softening in demand?
Fink:
No — I don’t believe there’s a bubble at all. That doesn’t mean every company will succeed. We’ll have some classic bankruptcies and some extraordinary winners. But we’re working with hyperscalers who are giving us 15‑ to 20‑year leases. We’re building the shell and infrastructure; they build the inside. My biggest fear is actually under‑investment — and we don’t talk about that enough. China invested aggressively in this area.
When I speak with leaders of the hyperscalers, they see more and more opportunity. Could they miscalculate revenue demand for a quarter or even a couple of years? Maybe. But over five years, I don’t think they’ll miscalculate — and they can afford to build now.
Cramer:
You talk about American exceptionalism. You’ve done remarkable things globally. Have you spoken to the President about the Tenacha–Naco rail project, the strategic port addition, or China’s dominance? Have you spoken with him about rebuilding Venezuela?
Fink:
Not yet. I’ll be spending time with the President in Davos next week. I’ve had conversations with the Administration on other places — especially Ukraine. Almost daily conversations working with the EU, working with Ukranians. We’re standing by.
Cramer:
And you’re taking a leadership role at Davos this year. Why?
Fink:
With today’s polarization and major disagreements, you need a forum where people talk to each other, not at each other. You can disagree — but through real dialogue, you can build understanding.
This year we have more heads of state attending than ever in the Forum’s history. More CEOs too — Jensen Huang is coming for the first time, Tim Cook is attending, Ray Dalio, leaders from across philanthropy and industry. There’s a new generation of leadership coming to Davos, and it’s going to be an important conversation.
One major topic will be AI: is it a job killer or a job creator? I’ve spoken with many of the people I’ll be interviewing, and they believe AI is a job accelerant. Yes, some jobs will be lost — but many more will be created. The question is whether we can manage that transition in an organized way.
At BlackRock, with $14 trillion under management, the scale of the technology needed to handle tens of millions of trades and the full breadth of asset allocation is enormous. Our entire system runs on technology. And we’re still growing headcount while also improving margins. Over the last few years, our margins have expanded by a few hundred basis points. We’re doing more with fewer people — but we’re also hiring where it matters.
Cramer:
Thank you, Larry — and congratulations.
Fink:
Thank you. I’m very proud.
